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This is a transcript of Live the 8Wise™ Way Podcast.

Episode Twenty:

Are You Thriving?

Welcome everybody, you are listening to Live The 8WiseTM Way podcast with me, Kim Rutherford, Psychotherapist and author. Thank you for joining us.

Today we are talking about thriving. It’s episode 20, can you believe we’re at episode 20 already? If this is the first time you are joining us, then let us know what you think of the podcast at the end. Do the whole like, share, comment, do whatever you’ve got to do but what I would really, really love you to do is go back to the beginning and start listening to the podcasts from episode one because what that will do is take you through my 8WiseTM model, the 8WiseTM  way to better mental health and psychological wellbeing, which is very apt today because today I am going to be talking about mental wellbeing.

So, episode 20 we’re talking about are you thriving? That’s the question I want you to ask yourself, are you thriving?  Now the reason I am tackling this subject matter today is because October 10th is World Mental Health Day and every single year on World Mental Health Day, big mental health organizations across the globe choose a very specific topic that they want everybody to focus on, and I’m so excited that finally my topic has come along because the topic for this year is supporting people to develop their mental wellbeing and the reason that I am so excited about this is because mental wellbeing is my arena. This is what I do. This is what I do every day, it’s what I talk about, it’s what I whinge about, it’s what I moan about, it’s what I encourage people to talk about.

Mental wellbeing is why I developed 8WiseTM in the first place. 8WiseTM is all about mental wellbeing, so I am so happy that finally, the powers that be have cottoned on to the importance of mental wellbeing, not just to help with the recovery of mental health issues, but also to support with the prevention of them as well. So if you are interested in those topics, if you’re interested in recovery and prevention, and how you can really look after your mental wellbeing and how you can learn how to support others and really make an impact using a brilliant topic that is part of the World Mental Health Day agenda, then grab your pen, grab your paper, get comfy, get your fluids ready, and we’re going to talk you through some things that you can use.

So, let’s start right at the beginning. Why? Why is mental wellbeing so important? I mean, we know it’s all about health. Health talks about are our bodies healthy, are our minds healthy and mental wellbeing really takes it to the next level. It’s really all about being in some form of general state of thriving in the various areas of your life, whether that be in relationships, in work, all of the areas that make up your life, the external world you live in. Mental wellbeing and making sure that you have a good balance of mental wellbeing, means that you are able to respond appropriately and effectively for you to the things that these different areas of life are throwing at you and, let’s be honest, we know they’re throwing lots at you. It’s why with 8WiseTM we have eight core elements, because we know that life triggers you against all eight core elements. So what we know is, ultimately, if you are looking at mental wellbeing, if you were to look at ways that you can look after your emotional wellness and your physical wellness, if you are able to maintain really good spiritual wellness and intellectual wellness and if you are able to make sure that you’ve got good environmental wellness and social wellness, what that will hopefully do is lead to really good occupational wellness, really good financial wellness, and overall it should lead to really, really good strong mental wellbeing. Because, ultimately, mental wellbeing is how we respond to life’s ups and downs. That’s as simple as it is. It’s how we respond to the things that are happening to us every day. It’s incredibly important to who we are, it’s incredibly important to how we manage things, and it’s incredibly important to how we cope in the world that we’re living with and so many things are impacted, and so many things are involved in it.

Mental wellbeing in general involves things like self-acceptance, feeling that you’re a part of something greater, giving you that sense of independence rather than feeling that you have to rely on others. Knowing and using who you are, your unique character, your unique strength to achieve the things that you want to achieve. Having a really accurate perception of reality, knowing what is really going on in your life right now, living in the moment, being in the present. It’s about making sure that you want to keep growing, using that wonderful brain of yours to keep moving forward in life and personal growth. It’s about having emotional resilience and still pursuing the interests, whilst maintaining a really good link to your core values and your core beliefs. It’s about the ability to have really strong and healthy emotional relationships with other people. Sometimes we’ve got to be able to stay optimistic with regards to life.

I suppose mental wellbeing is also about knowing that your happiness comes from within you. It is not dependent on everything around you or other people, it all comes from within you. What it does is it gives you this determination to move forward in your life and take action on the things that make your life better. Ultimately, if you can establish a really good mental wellbeing, then you are in the best frame of mind to move forward in your life and achieve the things that you want whilst remaining physically and mentally healthy in the process. It doesn’t matter where your life may have been in the past. It doesn’t matter where your life might be going in the future. Your mental wellbeing is all about implementing strategies, tools, techniques, coping mechanisms right now in this moment that you can do every single day that can help you to maintain that really good, strong foundation of overall wellness and wellbeing and that’s ultimately what it is. That’s what mental wellbeing is. It’s a strong foundation of your mind, knowing that you have put together a strong strategy, a strong framework. You’ve put together your boundaries of how you’re going to live this life and, by doing that, it leads you into a healthier, happier life.

For those of you who follow me and have read my book 8WiseTM Ways to a Healthier, Happier Mind, you know that’s what I’m all about. That’s what I talk about all the time. I’m fully engaged and fully committed to doing exactly those things, understanding what helps you thrive as an individual and I get lots of people coming to me going ‘Kim, can you just tell me what I need to do?’ and I’m like ‘No, I can help you, I can support you, I can give you advice and guidance, I can guide you myself’, but you, my lovelies, you are individual, fabulous people. What gives you mental wellbeing is going to be slightly different to what gives somebody else their mental wellbeing. And so, it’s really, really important that you learn to implement things that work for. It’s trial and error, which means you have to have a willingness to go out there and try and do different things as well.

Now, if you are trying to think of ‘Well, do I have good mental wellbeing? Do I not have good mental wellbeing? What does it look like in practice?’ I just want to share with you a couple of examples just to give you an idea of where somebody demonstrating good mental wellbeing might be. For example, if you, for whatever reason, lose your job and what you decide to do is, you’ve got options in that moment ‘It’s okay, I’ve lost my job, and I could end up getting lost in the low mood and potential depression that could come with that’. But somebody with really good mental wellbeing might choose to go the other direction. What they might choose is to say ‘Right, we’re going to start looking at some classes. I’m going to do some online learning, maybe do some free courses. That will help me to develop some new skills that are going to help me look for a different job’. What this does is start to look at the optimism side of our mind, and it basically says ‘Well, actually, yeah, this thing has happened to me, but I’m not going to let it define me. What I need it to be is almost a trigger point, a trampoline towards what I really want to do next’. It’s taking control of the moment rather than losing yourself in the moment.

You might have someone who has experienced homelessness in their lifetime and what they choose to do when their life is better and they’ve got themselves in a better stable place, they might be the people that choose to go and volunteer in those organizations, so almost like passing it forward, making sure that other people who are having the same experiences that she may have had in her earlier years that she’s giving that advice, she’s giving that guidance, She’s giving that support to those people so they can cope with those things. It’s about having the ability to look at life from a slightly different perspective. Almost looking at it as ‘okay, these are the cards that life have given to me. What can I do with them to make sure that my life is better, rather than them being so negative and getting lost in the negativity of it all that actually I lose myself and they dominate me in a different way’.

The reason that mental wellbeing plays such an important part in our mental health is because if we are able to fight for our mental wellbeing, we keep pushing towards thriving in our lives, in all areas of our lives. What that actually helps to do is reduce the risk of us moving down what I call the mental health continuum from thriving towards struggling and in crisis. And it’s when we are struggling and in crisis, do we start to see those mental health issues become stronger and stronger for us. So when I talk about 8WiseTM and I talk about what do we have to do to look after our mental health and mental wellbeing, what I’m always talking about is what strategies can I put in place that if I am suffering with my mental health right now, that I can implement wellbeing strategies, mental wellbeing strategies that help lift me out of my mental health, what I call the recovery arm of 8WiseTM.

But of course, if you do not yet suffer with your mental health, then we have to be realistic, you’re at risk of developing mental health issues because every single human on the planet is at risk of developing mental health issues. Just like every single human on the planet is at risk at developing physical health issues and so if we are looking at prevention, we can also look at how do we implement these mental wellbeing strategies that will help us remain in thriving and stay there for as long as we possibly can.

So, all of that is really, really crucial when it comes to being more in control of our mind and being more in control of our overall mental health and mental wellbeing.

Now, it sounds like it’s a really big topic when you look at life. Life itself is a really big topic. So just to help you out a little bit, I just want to give you some idea of how you can break mental wellbeing down. Obviously, like I’ve said so many times before, the 8WiseTM model is the best way to do this, because what it does is it breaks it down into these four core dimensions with two wellbeing elements linked within with very clear strategies for self-care linked to each of those, and rather than me go through all of that in detail again, what I do recommend is you go back and at least listen to the first 12 podcasts which take you through the model in detail with regards to each of those elements and with some tools and techniques and some ideas of what you can actually do with them to start building your mental wellbeing. But mental wellbeing itself can also involve a few different concepts that might make it easier for you to get your head around in a very, very quick moment. So mental wellbeing includes things like having a really healthy sense of who you are as a person, as yourself.

Now, with regards to a healthy sense of self with regards to the 8WiseTM model, this would link to your spiritual wellness and your intellectual wellness, which then obviously has an impact on your emotional wellness and physical wellness because within those four core elements we’re covering two core dimensions, which is our foundation dimension of emotional wellness and physical wellness. So again, having a healthy sense of self also means ‘what can my mind cope with? What can I emotionally cope with as well as what can my physical body cope with?’ So that’s really important. And then with spiritual wellness, and with intellectual wellness, we’re also looking at ‘who am I? What do I believe in? What are my values? What is my identity? What is my purpose? What are my interests? How am I going to grow as a human in this world?’ So one of the core components of mental wellbeing is definitely being able to develop a healthy sense of self. And with 8WiseTM you do that with your foundation dimension elements and also your internal dimension elements too.

Another one of the components of having really good mental wellbeing is having a really good perspective, and it’s really hard to have a different perspective or change your perspective if you’re unable to do that first one, because you really need to be able to understand yourself and who you are and how you function, what you believe in, if you are then able to step out of your comfort zone and look at life from different perspectives. Because sometimes when the darkness grabs us, and when the low mood grabs us and the negativity grabs us, and life feels like it’s beaten us up a little bit, that one perspective, getting stuck in that perspective doesn’t necessarily help us. It really helps, is in a moment or two we’re allowed to feel lower, allowed to have a bad day. We’re allowed to feel sad sometimes, of course we are. Absolutely. I wouldn’t take any of that emotion from anybody. But to stay there, long term, just isn’t healthy for us and so sometimes having the ability to adapt and change our perspective helps us to look at the situation differently and stop it from having such a negative impact on us.

Mental wellbeing really also includes the ability to have a different perspective and be flexible with our perspective and again, that really means that we have to know who we are. We have to know who we are, and we have to feel that we are in a strong enough position in the environments that we’re in and with the people in our lives to be able to demonstrate that perspective and change, that perspective or learn from others in order to develop different perspectives as well. So again, this then starts looking at your foundation dimension and also your internal dimension but it also takes in consideration your external dimension as well with regards to your social wellness and your environmental wellness too.

Another key component for mental wellbeing is psychological flexibility. Now, psychological flexibility is really all about the mind and knowing that you can be flexible in the moment. You can try different things that you know when you need to relax it, you know when you need to really push it. So psychological flexibility involves the entire 8WiseTM model.

And then the final one, really, the final core component for you would be to have daily maintenance because if you want to be good at anything, if you want to be consistent, that’s what you need to be. You need to commit to the consistency that makes you good at anything that you want to do. So daily maintenance of your mental wellbeing is crucial. It’s about making sure that you are owning these areas, this health healthy sense of self perspective, psychological flexibility, and daily maintenance, and committing to making sure that happens every day. And the best way to do that is do it with your conscious mind. Doing it consciously makes it become a habit, and the more we do it consciously, it then starts to become part of our subconscious and, it’s almost like mental muscle memory, where you just start doing these things over and over and over again.

Mental wellbeing is really important with regards to, obviously your personal life, but also with regards to your overall work life as well. It’s important that you are able to demonstrate these things in each, so it’s remembering that healthy sense of self. Because when you have a healthy sense of self, you know that you are separate from the problems and from the challenges that you face every day, which means they cannot override you. They can’t control you in the way that they can do when you feel powerless to them. It’s about making sure you get a perspective, and it’s really important to be able to constantly look at life with different perspectives in order to be able to problem solve the situations that you might be experiencing by having a healthy perspective. It is about looking at the situation from different angles and really looking at what changes can I make here in my own life to make sure I need to get where I want to be.

Now when it talks about flexibility, the psychological flexibility, you’ve got to go with the flow to a certain degree. But what this really means is you’re not rigid, you’re not stuck in only having specific thoughts, only having specific emotions, only having specific behaviours, that you have the ability to use other thoughts, other emotions, and other behaviours to make changes. So if your thinking pattern is actually in a space where it’s causing you problems, it’s learning how to adapt your thinking pattern in order to have a new thinking process that works for you.

If you need to change a negative thought process or that deeper inner critic, the best way to do that is tackle it through changing your thought process by actually consciously recognizing the thought processes that you are having, and then putting in some really good changes to that function in order to create something that is much healthier for you.

So that psychological flexibility of being able to change yourself on a cognitive level, change your thoughts, change your emotions, change your behaviours in order to get a better outcome from you, for your own life, and then again, this daily coping mechanism through daily maintenance is finding the ways that bring abundance into your life, using your skills, your knowledge, your abilities. This is things like having a great sense of humour, finding the support systems that work well for you, taking every day steps to work towards the things that you want to achieve. And if we’re able to do that, and we’re able to develop this mental wellbeing, then what we really do, and the most important message I give to everybody and I talk about it so much, is about having the best, the best, quality of life that you can ever have, the best quality of life that you deserve to have.

The only way to really get a strong, healthy, confident quality of life is for you to develop mental wellbeing so that you can look after your overall mental health. I can hear you say ‘this is great Kim, this is all fab and yeah, I can start doing stuff and I can read your book and I can start doing bits and pieces, but there’s going to be times when I’m not feeling so great, so, what do I do then? it’s going to take a lot of time, it’s got to take a lot of effort, I’ve got to put some serious effort in in order to change those things around and more importantly, how do I know when I need to do that?’ And that is such an important topic to think about is, do you understand yourself well enough to know where you are on the mental health continuum to know when you need to implement or step up your game when it comes to mental wellbeing strategies?

So, I always look at the mental health continuum is crucial, and you need to know on five levels. Now what a continuum basically means, I always think of it as, do you remember those little ball things that you could put on a desk and it’s like five or six balls on a string, and you press one and it knocks the other one and they keep knocking back and forth and back and forth. For me, that’s a really good visual representation of what a continuum is. It means that there’s an end to each side, but one’s a lower end one’s a top end, and that you can move between them. You consistently and continually move between them. And when it comes to your mental health, that is exactly what is happening. There are five core levels, and you have the ability to move between all five. Sometimes you are responding and reacting to life and that has this natural impact and therefore it has a natural impact of where you sit on the continuum and other times you have the power and control to change things that can push you in either direction as well.

We’re so powerful as humans because we have this amazing brain. If we can use it properly, we can get ourselves out of most mental situations when it comes to our mental health, those low moods, those anxious thinking’s, those that are emotionally led behaviours and spaces that we get ourselves into, or find ourselves in should I say, and I know because I’ve been there. I’ve absolutely been there at rock bottom and rock bottom is when you’re in crisis. And when you’re in crisis you tend to be very anxious, have a really low mood, depression. You’re around, but you’re not around. It’s almost like your brain is vacant. We call it absenteeism, you’re there in body, but you’re not there in mind at all. You’re incredibly exhausted. Likelihood is you can’t rest, you can’t relax and so sleeping is a major issue and you probably see major fluctuations in your weight, either putting on weight because of high cortisol levels or losing weight dramatically because you lose your appetite through that emotional shift.

So being in crisis is one end of the mental health continuum, and what you want to do is be able to move closer and closer and closer to the highest end of the continuum, which is excelling. And if you are excelling, you are cheerful and joyful. You’re energetic, you’re performing at your highest, you’re in a state of flow regularly, and you’re fully realizing your own potential, life is good when you are excelling, but life’s tough and it’s not realistic to always be excelling.

The three levels that are in between in crisis and excelling, well, under excelling is thriving. There’s the best space, the space where we can really, really achieve everything that’s realistic, to stay there for long periods of time. We are looking at us being positive, being calm, performing really well, sleeping well, being able to get a really good balanced diet in place. So our eating is normal and we’ve got normal social activity. We’re hanging out with our friends. We’re doing great things. We’re not isolated. We’re not hiding away.

Thriving is a really good space to be in because if we aim for excelling and don’t reach it, then we are hitting thriving, and thriving is fantastic. Now at the other end of the spectrum, at the other end of the continuum should I say, right next to in crisis, above in crisis, is struggling. Now, when you are struggling, you tend to be anxious. You tend to be depressed, extremely tired, have poor performance because you can’t function the way you were. Poor sleep and poor appetite. We’re not quite as bad as we would be if we were in crisis, but we’re getting that way. It’s moving towards that space and then bang in the middle of the continuum is surviving and surviving is what it is. It’s surviving. Nobody wants to stay just surviving. So, in the survival mode, what we are is we are worried a lot. We are nervous a lot, we’re irritable, we’re incredibly sad. Again, we have trouble sleeping because that’s the symptom that tries to tell us everything we need to know about what’s going on with ourselves.

We become really distracted and very often become withdrawn from everything that we’re in so I always look at these as, if you ever come to my training, you’ll see I use this a lot and I colour code it. I colour code it as in crisis is bright red, it’s a stop, sort it out. Don’t let it get to this. Struggling, the next one up from in crisis is orange, it’s amber alert orange. It’s that whole ‘okay, pay attention now, it’s going in the wrong direction. Now is the time to move in a different direction or you’re going to hit in crisis’. The middle ground is the surviving zone, that’s yellow, and that’s to really let you know you’ve changed direction. If you don’t sort yourself out, you either go in one direction, which is from yellow to orange to red, or you make some changes and go from yellow to green, because the next level up from surviving is thriving, which is this beautiful, bright, yellowy, acidy green, which is like a really cool, funky colour. And that’s really saying to you, this is a great place to be and excelling is in this beautiful, bright green-like nature, like the countryside, where the dream that we can always be there. So, we have these five tiers, these five levels of this mental health continuum. If you find, and this is my message to you today, if you are sat there going ‘I don’t know where I am on my mental health, I don’t know, so how do I know if I’m looking after my mental wellbeing, how do I know if I need to implement better strategies or make some changes, how do I know if I need to read your book, how do I know if I need to come on one of your training courses, how do I know if I need to actually book in and get some therapy with you or one of the other great therapists or coaches out there?’

Well, what you do is you monitor yourself and you check in with yourself regularly, and you check in with how you’re feeling about life. You check in with your emotions. You check in with your thoughts. You check in with your sleep patterns and all of these different areas of life and you go ‘Okay, am I feeling anxious at the moment? I am. Okay. Am I exhausted? Am I sleeping really badly? Yeah, I am. I could be in crisis. So what I now need to do is put in strategies to help me recover’. So now in crisis and struggling and the low end of surviving, these are the areas that you have an opportunity to implement mental wellbeing, to help with your own recovery.

So we go in crisis, struggling, lower survival. We need to implement recovery practices. Now, if you are already working with a therapist, you can actually be working on mental wellbeing with the therapist to help you with turning this around. If you have recently gone through major crisis with regards to your mental health, that again, implementing mental wellbeing strategies, now is the right thing to do, to turn it around.

If you are experiencing any form of addiction, you are now, if you’re in addiction and not getting help yet, then you are in crisis and therefore getting some form of help with your mental wellbeing through some really good daily maintenance practices can help you move from in crisis up the continuum towards the top half of it, which is surviving, thriving, and excelling.

You use mental wellbeing, and I would always highly recommend that you use the 8WiseTM formula to be able to improve your mental wellbeing, to get yourself out of in crisis, out of struggling, and way better off than surviving through a really good recovery program. If you’re the other end of the scale though, and you are in excelling and thriving and the top end of surviving, then you never want to be lower than the top end of surviving, and the top end of surviving is a bad day.

So now you’re in a position of ‘well, actually what I need to do is I need to make sure that I’m looking after my mental wellbeing enough that I am preventing myself from heading into any form of mental health area’. And that’s how we do it. We go, we check in with ourselves. We do a lot of stuff with regards to self-awareness. Journaling is a really good way of doing this. Journaling and monitoring on a daily basis, you know where your mood is, where your emotions are, where your thought patterns are. If bad things have happened that day, how they’re affecting you, are some of those feelings lingering longer than they need to, are they affecting your quality of life and if things start to affect your quality of life, then we know you are heading towards crisis. If it is not yet affecting your quality of life, then you are in prevention zone.

But that’s how you need to use tools, techniques, coping mechanisms linked to your mental wellbeing, daily commitment to a daily maintenance through daily action. Mental wellbeing, daily action. Now, you might listen to me a lot and you either hear me call it mental wellbeing or psychological wellbeing. They are both the same. I just use the words interchangeably because I just like changing it up sometimes. I’m not going to lie to you, they’re the same thing. Mental wellbeing, psychological wellbeing. It’s about making sure that you’re keeping your mind as healthy as it possibly can and implementing strategies to help you either recover quickly from mental health issues or prevent yourself from having them and 8WiseTM was always developed to support with creating and developing really, really good, really good mental wellbeing so that you are either recovering from your mental health issues or you are preventing yourself from actually developing them.

So, in honour, this is why I’m doing tonight, today’s session in honour of World Mental Health Day, that is October the 10th, or has been October the 10th, depending when you’re listening to this, because this year’s theme is all about making sure that you implement strategies for mental wellbeing because they can help you with both recovery and prevention and therefore they help you to look after your mental health overall. And why I love it so much is because it’s the ethos of what I believe, it’s my core belief system. It’s my core value system when it comes to mental health. That if you can look after your mental wellbeing, you have more power and control to look after your mental health too.

And that, my lovelies, is what I call Living The 8WiseTM Way, which is why you are here and listening today. So, thank you for joining me today. I hope that’s been useful. I hope that’s given you, or triggered some, thinking processes with regards to how you can change things up or what you need to do. Like I said, if you are looking for a little bit more support with this and a little bit more help with regards to how you do this, feel free to head to the website Number one, you can head to the store there and you can get access to the book, the 12 Week Journal, the 12-month planner, and the pocket book all developed to help you develop a really good strategy for developing your mental wellbeing and looking after your mental health. What you also have there, if you do get the book and you then want to actually follow the practice of the book, like I said what’s the point in buying self-help book if you don’t do the doing, so to help you do the doing, also on the website there is a free resource section where you can access self-assessments to help you identify where your wellbeing is, linked to each of those core elements of the 8WiseTM model, plus some tools, some worksheets and support systems there that you can implement to help you to start developing that strategy and Live The 8WiseTM Way.

You can also get a copy of my book anywhere, anywhere that sells books online so all the big boys, they all do it as well. I think there’s about 39,000 bookstores across the globe where you can get a copy of the book.

Now, if you think that you would like a little bit more support and almost be guided through the process, then I am so excited that in the next few months I will be going live with 8WiseTM Ways to Better Psychological Wellbeing. I will be taking you through the course that actually helps you use 8WiseTM to develop your own strategy, your own action plan, and be able to implement the very specific tools and techniques that are relevant to who you are and your personality and your life in order to be able to really commit this daily maintenance of mental wellbeing and start protecting your mental health or start changing your mental health.

So, if that is something you are interested in, then keep an eye out on all of my social media because I will be sharing the dates of that in the next week or two and providing the links to register for that course, which will be starting in January and there are options. There is a Level two course, a level three course, and a level four course as well, depending on what level of depth you want to go into your own psychological needs. That’s what it’s really all about. Each level is about the level of depth you want to go into your psychological needs.

If you are listening to this, this is really exciting, if you are listening to this and you are a wellness coach, a wellbeing coach, or my personal favourites therapists, and you like the idea of learning how to become an 8WiseTM therapist and taking on board the 8WiseTM Way for supporting your clients, then I’m really, really excited to say that in 2023 we are bringing you the practitioner course where you’ll be able to train up in the 8WiseTM methodology, be able to learn the psychological structures linked to the 8WiseTM methodology, so you can implement those every day with all of your own clients as well. If you’d like more information on that sooner, then please feel free to contact me directly at  But again, you can access all of that information probably below and also on the website too.

So that’s it. Episode 20. Ask yourself, are you thriving and if you are not, do something about it. Don’t just stay there going into that cycle, you’re going further and further and further down in the depths. If you are doing that, then you’re on the wrong end of the continuum. You’re heading into crisis, and that is not a fun place to be. I’m talking from experience, both personal and observational through my professional work. If you would like any more information, please feel free to contact me. If you have liked this episode, then let’s tell the world. There are people out there who are struggling and they could really benefit from hearing information that can help them so they don’t feel so alone and so isolated and that’s the power of the podcast.

If you don’t mind commenting below, sharing, liking, doing everything, subscribe so you never miss one yourself, then that would be great. If this was your first episode, thank you so much. Really appreciate you joining us. I hope you’ve got some really good information from it. Now, why not head back to episode one and actually learn the 8WiseTM model for yourself and really made some positive, brilliant changes in your own life and for those of you joined me all the way through since episode one, thank you so much for the support. I really do appreciate it, and that means that lots more people can hear this and lots more people can get the support they need.

So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Like I said, if anybody wants to contact me, feel free to follow me on any of my social media platforms, LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook and you can pretty much find me anywhere as either @8Wisetherapy or @8wisekim. Thank you for listening. I look forward to catching up with you soon on our next episode, and until then, take care of yourselves and enjoy Living The 8WiseTM Way.

Bye for now.

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