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This is a transcript of Live the 8Wise™ Way Podcast.

Episode Sixteen:

Are You Thinking Too Loud?   

Welcome everybody to the Live the 8WiseTM Way podcast, I hope you are well. My name is Kim Rutherford, Psychotherapist, Author of 8WiseTM Ways to a Healthier, Happier Mind, creator of the 8WiseTM model for better psychological wellbeing and here I am today as your podcast host.

How are you doing? Are you well? We are going to be talking about your thinking patterns today. Today’s episode is all about Are You Thinking Too Loud and it links really well with the previous episodes that we’ve done.

So, a few episodes ago, I was talking about challenging life transitions and how the way that we have to constantly adapt to transitions then boost, I don’t mean boost in a good way, I mean raise our stress levels and if they raise our stress levels badly, it can move towards dysfunctional stress. Dysfunctional stress can have a really big impact on our emotions, on our physical body, on our psychological elements and also our behaviours and so it’s really important that, to manage these transitions, we keep our stress levels where we need them to be. In order to do that, we need to really be able to understand how our mind works and how our emotions and our feelings and our mood work and that’s what we were talking about in the last episode. We were talking with regards to our emotions and not being scared of the unpleasant emotions and being able to understand them, accept them and move forward from them so that they don’t dominate you in any way, shape or form. They are just being used for what they’re there to tell you, which they are just messages trying to help you navigate this world.

But what we identified from emotions is that, although an emotion only releases a chemical for six seconds, when it’s then linked to the cognitive thinking process, our brain kicks in and then what happens is our brain starts to make decisions about things. What happens is we have an emotion that triggers a thought, that thought triggers a feeling, that feeling triggers a physical response in the body, that physical response in the body then triggers a behaviour and it’s that behaviour that we put out into the world.

So this is how we link the internal dimension of the 8WiseTM model with the external dimension. The emotion is linked to the internal world, the thought is the internal world, the feeling is the internal world, the body is the internal world, but the behaviour is the external world and it impacts every single element of our external world. If we want to balance all elements of our life, we really need to put the time and the effort into understanding what emotions we feel, how they trigger our thought processes, how they trigger our overall feelings and how that affects our body and how then we behave differently because of them. So that’s what I want to talk about with you guys today. I just want to talk to you a little bit about emotions and how they link to, or how they create, these different cognitive thinking processes in our brains. Nice and simple, she says.

Okay. Behaviour. The main behaviours that we experience are us acting out based on what is going on in our heads. So basically what’s happening is, if we can’t learn to control our thoughts and our feelings, the impact of those has such a strong impact on us physically that we start to behave differently and it’s those behaviours that we put out into the world that cause us more problems. They cause us issues, they cause us challenges, they affect our transitions. If we are trying to change the end game, which is the behaviours, we then need to go back to the beginning almost and have a look at the thought pattern.

Now in one of the earlier episodes, I talked about how we develop our conditioned mind and how our brain is such a powerful tool and has the ability to hold on to all of these different experiences that we’ve had in our lives since the moment we were born into the three core areas of our mind, which is the conscious mind, the subconscious mind and the unconscious mind and all of our experiences linked to all of the emotions that we have ever had during those experiences, all get pushed into these different filing systems within these three core parts of our mind. Then what happens is that, from a cognitive perspective, when we’re trying to navigate the world, we go to this big database and we ask the database to provide us with the information we need to help us navigate it from the experiences that we’ve already had.

What comes along with those experiences is those experiences, they create our values, they create our belief system, they create how we see the world and how we see ourselves and they ultimately create what is called our conditioned mindset. It’s our conditioned mindset that is actually responding to everything that’s happening to us in life and that’s the reality of the world we live in. We don’t have that much power and control over what our life is going to be. We can make plans, but our plans will constantly have to adapt because of the different things that life will throw at us on a day-to-day basis and so it’s really important that we developed a conditioned mindset that works with us rather than against us.

I would say the most common theme for any client working with me is low self-esteem. People will come in with lots of different, what we would call presenting issues, they will all come to me with different things that they think their actual problem is but that actual problem that they’re experiencing, whether that be a relationship issue, whether that be that they’re not feeling that they’re mentally strongest at the moment, tends to come from this conditioned mindset that has been developed sometimes if not all the time linked to where their levels of self-esteem are. When it comes to working with self-esteem, the common theme that I found with my clients is that it tends to be their thinking pattern that is causing them more issues with regards to their self-esteem. That’s because the cognitive function of their brain has got what we call cognitive distortions.

Cognitive distortions are basically cognitive errors that happen on a day-to-day basis. When our negative thought patterns or habits make us exaggerate, inaccurately, our perception of what the reality is around us it becomes unhealthy. It starts to damage our mental health, it starts causing issues with our wellness and our wellbeing and what it creates is these distortions. These very strong distortions that tell us a different story of what’s happening in the world. And distortions are just basically thinking patterns, very common thinking patterns that don’t help us in any way, shape or form yet we still keep going back to them because cognitive distortions are basically irrational thought patterns that are exaggerated by negative thinking and feelings and they convince our minds that what we are thinking is true. Because of that, they have a huge impact on our conditioned mindset so if we’ve got this conditioned mind, this whole process of responding to the world, that’s based on these irrational thought patterns, then obviously our behaviours and the impact those behaviours have on the life that we’re trying to create are going to be problematic. What they can actually do is create these cycles that we struggle to get out of. Now, our brains they are phenomenal, best computers in the world, absolutely but what they want to do is they want to constantly take shortcuts. So it remembers from our past and will tend to take that same connection when similar thoughts or emotions occur so what it’s basically going is “I don’t want to think outside the box, I want to go, okay, this is happening now when this happened in the past, this happened so therefore it must be exactly the same this time so the way we think should be exactly how we thought then”. It’s this process that creates these distortions or reinforces the distortions that we already had telling us that they’re true and creating this really poor habitual thinking process that leads to increased anxiety, depression, and a range of unhealthy issues within our relationships. It’s really important to recognize these cognitive distortions and it’s important that you understand them, that they are habitual patterns of thinking or beliefs, they are not fact, they are false, they’re inaccurate and they are often exaggerated thoughts. They manifest as negative emotions or feelings, and they may increase your anxiety and depression potentially even causing longer term psychological damage. So ultimately, they’re not great. They are not great and we all have them, we’ve all created them for ourselves, some more than others, but we all have them. So we need to learn to know how to change that, we need to learn to know how do we change them, create new ones and create a way of thinking that works for us rather than against us. How do they develop in the first place, that’s what we need to know. We need to understand why and how they develop in the first place.

There’s several factors that actually impact these cognitive distortions growing. There’s cultural factors, so things like language, religion, customs, beliefs and moral values. These all influence our behaviours and the way we think positively and negatively. These cultural factors, they are learned. They are passed down through the generations as part of the human race evolution process. They influence who we are, the way we dress, the way we behave, the way we communicate and how we handle all our emotions. They create a competition versus cooperation mindset, which basically means we’re constantly in competition with other people. We live in a comparison space now rather than a cooperative space, which then leads us to have more self-criticism about ourselves when we are not winning in these competitions that don’t really exist and it impacts our willingness to speak about a mental illness or seek help because many stigmas are based on cognitive distortions.

There are environmental factors that lead to cognitive distortions too, genetics, financial wealth, our education levels, our living conditions, all of these can influence our sense of security, our sense of resilience, our persistence, and our attitude. Having accessibility to healthcare and other health services offers more opportunity for increased longevity and decreased stress, so if we don’t have access to those spaces, those services, those safe spaces and environments that help us then actually what happens, our stress levels get worse and as our stress levels get worse, our cognitive distortions will also get worse meaning we then spiral into those mental health areas.

Then we’ve got the social factors that cause them as well, such as stigma from peers and the media influences and the marketing world, they create our ideas and our beliefs and the way we think and how we perceive ourselves and also how we perceive others. Our parents get involved, they contribute to our overall behaviour and attitude and thinking processes about ourselves and other people.

We might have had negative social relationships. This can lead to ‘us vs them’ mentality or an ‘I’m not good enough’ mentality. We might have had positive relationships that can promote healthy communication and emotional wellbeing, but only if you do things a certain way, meaning that you have to do it the same way all the time otherwise it doesn’t work. Your active participation in social activities can contribute to both mental wellness and mental health issues and mental illness if those social activities are not the right ones for you. We have to change our thinking and be willing to change if we want to change the cognitive thought patterns that are causing us the issues in our life.

So there are quite a few different cognitive distortions and I just want to talk you through a few of them, so you’re quite aware of them, so you can then also do a little bit of self-reflection, you do know I love the self-reflection. If you’ve got a pen and paper with you now, then all I want you to do, I’m going to just go through these cognitive distortions with you, and I’m going to specifically go through the common thinking patterns, the common distortions, which occur when you might be struggling with anxiety or depression. These are the ones that are linked to those spirals with regards to mental health. I just want you to think about whether you are experiencing any of them. If you don’t have your pen and paper, this is a good time to pause me, shut me up for a few minutes, go and grab your pen and paper, and then we can work through this together.

Okay. So, the first cognitive distortion I want to talk about is what we call ‘black or white’ thinking or otherwise known as polarized thinking. This is when there is a pattern of only considering two scenarios in a situation when in reality, in order to creatively problem solve, we need to consider at least three options and decrease that likelihood that you are overlooking something. A black and white situation prevents any form of creativity and the reality of life is nothing really is black or white, it’s usually within the grey area. So if you are someone who thinks that it’s either this or that, that is a cognitive distortion. For example, if you are in a situation with friends and you might say to yourself, “oh okay, she hasn’t returned my call, she either hates me or didn’t get my message”. That is a black and white cognitive distortion that creates a negative thinking pattern for you. Removing that the third option might be something completely different. It might be that she was busy, she was upset, there’s something else going on, but without thinking of the wider options, we get stuck in this ‘it’s either me or it’s a situation’ either way it’s negative. So black or white thinking is one of the cognitive distortions.

Being a belief filter is another one. So unchallenged beliefs which impacts how you process information or view yourself. Common examples of this are filters in your mind, belief filters about yourself, so if you are that person who’s constantly told yourself that you’re stupid, maybe you weren’t great at school. So now you think you’re stupid because you didn’t get the exams you were going to get. If you are somebody who believes that if you gain weight you’re not beautiful, or you have to be wealthy or you are not successful. These are belief filters, and they are not challenged and because they’re not challenged, you start to view yourself in a negative way. It’s about changing those belief filters to something that is more positive and works for you.

Another one is emotional reasoning. This is a pattern of allowing your emotions to override your cognitive interpretation of any situation. For example, as a parent, you might be saying to yourself “I feel guilty for putting my child in timeout or putting them on the naughty step, I feel like I’m a bad mom when I do that”. So what you’re actually then saying to yourself is how I feel is now changing the situation and so you really need to look at it from the slightly different perspective and that’s emotional reasoning. Feeling guilty because you’re doing something for your child and then thinking you’re a bad person for doing that becomes this really negative thinking cycle that then links to more feelings linked to things like guilty, which as we identified in the previous episode is a very, very unpleasant feeling and emotion to experience. So that’s about emotional reasoning.

Then we’ve got jumping to conclusions. This is when you assume you know what others are thinking or know the outcome of the scenario before it happens. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go. So that person who already goes in with a clear knowledge of what is going to be said, how it’s going to be said and so they’ve prepped for it, they’ve planned for it. Through that preparation, through that planning for it, their behaviour changes and the changing of the behaviour might now actually cause a completely different outcome, making a situation worse. This is the cognitive distortion of jumping to conclusions.

Then, of course we’ve got labelling. Labelling is when you use negative labels to describe yourself and others. I have a big issue with labelling, so I have issues with “I’m crazy”, or “I’m not sane”, or “it’s an insane moment”. When you start labelling yourself as something or when you label others as something, you are really limiting who you are as a human and all the wonderful things that you can achieve or all the wonderful things that someone else can achieve. It’s that concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you constantly label yourself as something that’s negative, it will impact your emotions, it will impact your behaviours and therefore you will suddenly start having all of these negative things happening in your life because you’ve made them come true. If you believe it, it makes it happen. It reminds me of the film The Field Of Dreams “If you build it, they will come”. If you say it, it will happen because you create the labels that you’ve labelled yourself with.

Now another cognitive distortion is using absolutes. This is when you draw a conclusion based on a singular or a repeated event that you don’t really consider all of the facts. Phrases typically start with the words like “always” or “everything”, such as “you are always ignoring me”, “you always do that”. That’s when you are using absolutes and not actually looking at the wider stuff. This tends to happen in arguments a lot, I mean, I do this with my husband all the time, he tells me this all the time, he says “it’s not always, it’s just sometimes”. I use the word always with him, it drives him mad, but it’s in those moments I go into using absolute, see even I’m doing it because… da da da… I’m human. As a human, we all go through these processes so using absolutes, not a great thing to be doing.

Then the shoulda, woulda, coulda’s the, should thinking, judging yourself based on what you believe a good person would do, whatever a good person is. Things like “I know I shouldn’t think this way, but I hate feeling like I have to stay at the party all night”, so don’t stay. Go, go home, do what you want to do. The shoulda, woulda, coulda’s, “I should do this because that’s what society expects from me”, “I should do this because that’s what a good person is”, “I should do this”. I should do this, I should do this. The reality of everything when it comes to should, is you should do what is good for you and that is the only thing to focus on. Don’t be judging yourself based on what you believe everybody else perceives a good person to be, you know what’s right for you, do what’s right for you.

Then we’ve got the cognitive distortion of blocking information. This is the cognitive pattern of not acknowledging the good in a situation or a past success. Such as when you need to be thinking you will not be successful in a task, even though you’ve never failed at similar tasks before. Now I get this a lot, it’s linked an awful lot with regards to perfectionism with my clients because a lot of my clients are senior leaders. I work with a lot of business owners, I work with a lot of CEOs, business leaders, executives, those high powered high level people, and a lot of the time when they get into that high stress level, they can genuinely start going through “I’ve got to hit this or I’ve failed”. That’s as simple as it is, this blocking the information, they can sometimes completely ignore the fact they’ve had all this major success in their lives because what they remember the most is the failures. But actually it’s about all of the evidence and using all of the evidence to create cognitive patterns that work for you, not just focusing on the bad stuff. It’s about looking at all of the evidence and all of the facts that demonstrate how you have been successful in all ways of your life in so many ways already.

Then we’ve got the cognitive distortion of self-shaming or blaming. So intense feelings that you are defective and should take responsibility for a negative outcome or a situation. It’s that concept of “well, that went well but who am I to think I’m so great. I’m such a joke” or “I don’t deserve to think…”, you know when you go down that whole route of “I don’t deserve to celebrate myself” as if it’s a bad thing that you’ve done well. It’s okay, if you’ve done great, own it because by not owning it, you then lead to that blocking information one previously. So self-shaming or blaming, just in order to kind of self-deprecate, that’s really what that cognitive distortion is about .

The last one I want to talk to you about today is catastrophize. This is probably the one I see the very most, especially when it’s linking to anxiety, this is about jumping to an extreme conclusion and making the situation more dramatic than it actually needs to be. So, for example, you think you’re only 15 minutes late but now the whole night has been ruined, it’s that catastrophizing it, it’s making it bigger, making it worse, making it more dramatic than it is.

These are the most common thinking patterns or cognitive distortions that happen when somebody’s struggling with anxiety and depression. But cognitive distortions are something that every single one of us on the planet experiences day to day. They are habitual patterns of thinking that we’ve gotten ourselves into based on experiences and beliefs from our past and they’ve created this conditioned mindset that we use to respond to everything that life throws at us. Not so great.

So what we need to learn to do is we need to learn how to overcome those negative thought patterns and I just want to go through a few of the ways that you can do that, so if you are somebody who’s experiencing negative thinking patterns, you know what you can do straight away in order to change that.

Number one is to have daily negative thought time. Sounds a bit weird, doesn’t it that one. But what I’m basically saying to this is you need to create a strategy for gaining control over your negative thinking and the only way you can do that is if you put time aside every day to allow yourself to do the negative thinking, so you then can implement the change of that thinking that is already existing. You can’t do that if you don’t know it’s there and you can’t do that, if you don’t put the time in to do it. So have daily negative thought time, allow yourself to do that and then replace those negative thoughts. You know what the negative thought is, now we want to replace it. We don’t overcome negative thought patterns, what we do is we replace them with better ones. For most of us, those negative thought patterns are well worn neural pathways, so we create new neural pathways. We replace them with better ones and it’s really, really good to be writing things down instead of thinking. It’s why I created a journal and it’s why I created a planner because it’s when we write something down, especially with negative thoughts, it’s that connection between the psychological and the physical. It’s almost like you’re removing something from your brain. Write down why the negative thought is present. When you can see the words on paper or the screen, doesn’t matter how you do it, it’ll be easier to make sense of it and move forward because when we see it directly in front of us, we see it as a third party. When we have it in our head, it’s affecting us emotionally and psychologically so by removing it from our head, by writing it down, we place a different perspective on it and it’s easier to understand it.

Now you need to establish new habits. I’ve said this in a previous episode, it’s a lot easier to establish new habits than it is to try and change old ones. You’ve got to start thinking about what new habits do you want to start with, what do you want to do and start putting those things in place. I’m a big believer in affirmations because just like repeating these cognitive distortions over and over again has cemented them into this condition mindset, if you were to start trying to use affirmations, really positive ones, what you are doing is using the same process to create something positive rather than negative with the cognitive distortions. It’s having these affirmations that you can write them down, put them around your house, put them with you, carry them everywhere so that you’re saying them to yourself regularly, you’re starting to really penetrate into the deepest parts of your mind and they start to sit there. What they become is stronger and more powerful than the cognitive distortions that are there already.

I believe that one of the best ways to overcome negative thought patterns is to stop watching the morning news. I know that sounds really weird, but if you start your day, you start your morning, with negativity, then the chances are you’re going to increase that negativity over the course of the day. If you are somebody who’s already prone to these cognitive distortions by starting the day with something that’s miserable and negative, it gives more power to those cognitive distortions to grow and grow during the day. So try to start your morning with something that’s more positive for you. Maybe listen to a podcast, or maybe listen to some music or ring somebody in the morning or do some exercise but do something that’s positive for you so you’re not starting the day with something negative that then generates more and more negativity through your thinking processes.

Develop your success routine as well. When you know what you want and you are driving it, you’re going forward for it and you are feeling that you are actually achieving something, that keeps your momentum going, that builds your evidence up. It’s about understanding what this success routine looks like and it’s always moving you forward. Even on the days when you fail, it’s failing you forward and by that I mean you fail, you learn from it and it moves you forward because of that. So make sure you develop a really good success routine of knowing what your goals are, knowing what your actions are and knowing what you’re going to do. It’s why, on my website, you can download the free resources with regards to setting your own goals, creating your own 8WiseTM map and creating your own transition plan so that you can use that to develop your success routine and help you move forward positively.

With regards to the realms of positive psychology, you need to be focusing on gratitude now because it’s really easy to get brought into focusing on just the negatives all the time. Have you ever noticed how weeds grow faster than pretty flowers do and that’s because weeds don’t need to be cultivated, but the pretty flowers do so you need to put the time and the effort into cultivating the positive mindset in order to naturally become a strong defence to the negative one and focusing on gratitude is a really, really strong way of cultivating this positive, beautiful garden in your mind. Try movement and try meditation because meditation lets you become more awake and more purposeful about your actions. It lets you become more in control of how you feel, how you think and understanding how you respond to things. There’s a difference between responding to things and reacting to thing. A response is when you have knowledge, data, processes, and systems in place so that no matter what life throws at you, you’ve got something that you can respond with. Reactions are when you have nothing to answer that your reaction is quick, it’s thoughtless because of it. So movement and meditation such as yoga, Tai Chi, anything like that allows you to move, to breathe, to think clearly, that gives you the clarity to be able to then purposefully work out how you stay more awake, how to respond to things in your life rather than keep reacting. Ultimately believe and you will succeed just like the labelling with regards to cognitive distortions is bad for you because if you label yourself as something, it will happen, how about believing and you will have it happen as well.

So if you believe in yourself to create a successful reality, give yourself the benefit of the doubt and believe you will succeed in fulfilling what your goals are, your dreams are, your aspirations are no matter what they might be, if you keep focusing on the belief instead of the negative belief, just like a cognitive distortion can develop negatively, you can create a really good thought process that can develop positively and that goes for you.

It’s really difficult to just override the cognitive distortions and the negative thinking patterns that you’ve had, which is why you need to instead overcome them by creating something new.

I called this episode Are You Thinking Too Loud because negative thinking is loud, cognitive distortions are loud and you need to learn to dial them down. The way to dial them down is dial up the other side of things higher, dial up the positives, dial up the gratitude, the meditation, the affirmations, the thinking positively, you dial that up you dial the cognitive distortions down, and that helps you to start managing any form of negative thinking pattern. So if you know that you are currently thinking too loud in all the wrong ways, and that these negative thinking patterns are causing you problems, causing you higher levels of stress, forcing you to react in behaviours that don’t work for you in life then you need to make changes, and you need to make them now because you are going to have to constantly be adapting to life based on all of the challenges and transitions you will experience. It is better to be able to respond to them by having a really good framework in place, really good processes in place, really good routines in place that come from a space of positivity than it is to react with a conditioned mind that is negative and isn’t helping you move forward effectively.

So that is all I want to think about today is Are You Thinking Too Loud, too loud in the wrong way and, if so, how are you going to start dialling the noise down.

Thank you for listening to this. This is episode 16. If this was the first episode you’ve joined us, thank you very much, I hope you found it useful and now you’ve listened to it, why don’t you pop on and listen from the beginning from episode one, where you will learn all about the 8WiseTM model in a lot more detail. You will learn how it can help you in so many ways and I go through the model step by step and alongside the book as well. If you haven’t got a copy of the book and you want to get a copy of the book, you can get it from any of the major book retailers, but you can also get it directly from me. I’ll even sign them if you ask but you can get them directly from me. Just go to my website and you will find the bookstore there where you can get all of the books and that is The 8WiseTM Ways to a Healthier, Happier Mind, the 12 week journal, the 12 month planner and also the Pocketbook of Wellness as well.

If you would like to come along and join the private Facebook group, then the private Facebook group is called the 8WiseTM Wellness Café and it’s got a cafe vibe to it, it’s all chilled out, it’s just a group of people who are like-minded, who are trying to live a certain way. I share tools, I share tips, people share their experiences, but most importantly people support each other when there’s anything going on. If you are somebody who doesn’t have a lot of people to reach out to come along, join the group and start reaching out to people who are actively looking to do exactly the same thing and I will put the link in the notes below.

You are more than welcome to ask me any questions or raise any queries with me directly and if I can help you, I certainly will try to. You can do that simply by sending me an email to or in the notes there will be a way that you can just send me a voice note as well and, if you’re lucky enough, I may use some of those to answer the questions live on some of the podcast episodes, just so that other people can benefit from the information that is helping you as well. I would love, love, love, love, love it if you would come and follow me and engage with me on my social media, you can find me pretty much across all of the platforms, I am either @8Wisetherapy or @8Wisekim, it’ll be great to see you there.

Now I created the podcast, well, I created 8WiseTM in general, and I’ve said this before, because I really, really wanted to help everybody with their mental health, not just the one in four who are experiencing mental health issues, been there I know how tough that is, but also helping the three in four who are at risk of developing them because if we can prevent people from developing them, there won’t be as many people struggling and what a wonderful world that would be, that we can help people to stop struggling just by giving them some tools, some tips, a framework, a model that they can follow, that they can start looking after their mental health and wellbeing for life so I would love it if you would like the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, do everything you need to get it out there. There’s a lot of people out there right now struggling and maybe, just maybe, one of these episodes could be, I don’t know, some way of helping them, an answer to what maybe something they’re going through. It could be the thing that turns them around for today. So if you don’t mind sharing it, I’d really, really appreciate it.

The exciting thing is, if you would like to come and work with me directly, you are more than welcome to get in touch. I take on new clients, but more importantly, I’ve got my training coming up and I am looking forward to delivering my 8WiseTM master classes, my 8WiseTM discovery courses and my 8WiseTM accelerator, which is a very in-depth way of understanding your mental health and wellbeing, the changes you need to make in your life using the 8WiseTM model so you can have a better quality of life. So keep an eye out on my social media for all of the dates when those courses are starting and it would be great if you could come along and join them. They’re going to be held on Zoom so wherever you are in the world you will be able to access them and I promise you, even if you are in a time zone that doesn’t work, we will make it happen through recordings for you so it would be great if you would pop along and see those and join me on some of those training events as.

This has been episode 16 Are you thinking too loud and if you have been thinking too loud negatively, as of today my friends it’s time to change it. It’s time to take control of your mind, make it work for you so you can have the life you want.

Next time, we will be talking about understanding behaviours and how we’re putting all of this to understand how your behaviours are influenced by it and how you can make those positive changes. So, thank you for joining me today. I really, really appreciate it. My name’s Kim Rutherford, Psychotherapist, author, creator of 8WiseTM and I have been your podcast host.

I look forward to chatting to you again at the next episode and until then, take care, bye for now and see you soon.

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